Radio Interview At The United Nations
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, How Do You...
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, how do you help people?
Sri Chinmoy: I can be of service, but only God can help. I can be a servant. The servant serves the master according to his capacity. In my case also, I am serving the real Master, the Supreme, in each individual seeker.
Mr. Schonfeld: You Talk Of The Supreme,...
Mr. Schonfeld: You talk of the Supreme, you talk of God. Is it a concept that other religions also have in their use of the word God? Jews, Christians and Moslems, for example? Or is it an entirely different concept that you have of the Supreme Power?
Sri Chinmoy: No, it is absolutely the same. Each religion has a God of its own, but there is only one God. Our religion will call Him Paramatman, your religion will call Him God and another religion will call Him Allah. But there is only one God, one Supreme Being. He is known by different names and forms, but my God and your God will always remain the same. There is only one God.
Mr. Schonfeld: How Do You Try To...
Mr. Schonfeld: How do you try to make your concept of God known to your followers?
Sri Chinmoy: I tell my followers and students that God is all Love. It is true that God embodies all qualities: He is Confidence, He is Compassion, He is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent-He is everything. But the quality I like most, the quality I admire and adore most in God is His Love. It is His all-pervading Love that compels me to be within Him all the time. It is His aspect of Love that I try to offer to my students.
Mr. Schonfeld: You Say That Love Is...
Mr. Schonfeld: You say that love is the predominant element that appeals to you. How did you discover this?
Sri Chinmoy: I have discovered it in my meditation and realisation. I see the world around me with love. Human love is all bondage. Before it binds someone, it is already bound. Divine love liberates and fulfil. First it liberates us, then it fulfils us. The love that I speak of is the divine love, the love we see and feel only in God. We bring it from God and offer it to those who are crying for that love.
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, Did You Practise...
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, did you practise this philosophy in your native land of India?
Sri Chinmoy: I did practise it in my native land. I was in India for thirty-two years. For about twenty years I practised meditation most devotedly and soulfully.
Mr. Schonfeld: Who Was Your Spiritual Leader...
Mr. Schonfeld: Who was your spiritual leader there?
Sri Chinmoy: My spiritual leader was God, the Supreme.
Mr. Schonfeld: Do You Have Any Text...
Mr. Schonfeld: Do you have any text or scriptures on which you base your message, or is it all inspired?
Sri Chinmoy: My philosophy is the philosophy of love, devotion and surrender. I have written considerably on this philosophy and I have given talks at over a hundred universities. Every month I give talks here at the Dag Hammarskjold auditorium. In all these talks I give the message of love, devotion and surrender.
Mr. Schonfeld: Are You Married?...
Mr. Schonfeld: Are you married?
Sri Chinmoy: No, I am not married.
Mr. Schonfeld: Do You Believe In Marriage?...
Mr. Schonfeld: Do you believe in marriage?
Sri Chinmoy: I believe in marriage provided it is a good and divine marriage. Otherwise it can cause terrible problems.
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, I Watched You...
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, I watched you as you spoke to your followers today and your eyes were closed most of the time. Some of them seemed to have their eyes closed also.
Sri Chinmoy: When I invoke Peace, Light and Bliss, I keep my eyes half-closed, not fully closed. I find it extremely easy to invoke Peace, Light and Bliss from above and offer it to those who are around me when my eyes are half-closed. If we keep our eyes totally closed, we may fall asleep. And if we keep our eyes wide open, we may strain our eyes. The forces of this world are seeking to distract us and compel us to pay attention to who is sitting on what chair, what kind of clothing someone is wearing, and so on.
Mr. Schonfeld: But Did You See Me...
Mr. Schonfeld: But did you see me come in with your eyes half-closed? I came in a little late.
Sri Chinmoy: I did see you. I saw the outer world as much as I had to. But again, at the same time I was looking at you, I was invoking Peace, Light and Bliss.
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, You Also Use...
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, you also use a chant of some kind. What does that do?
Sri Chinmoy: I was chanting Aum at that time. Aum is the mother of all Indian incantations or mantras. I was invoking the three principal Indian Gods: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Brahma is the Creator, Vishnu is the Preserver and Shiva is the Transformer. I was invoking these three cosmic gods to illumine our consciousness. As you know, God exists in three aspects: God the Creator, God the Preserver and God the Transformer. Aum has three sounds: a, u and m. When they are united, they become Aum .
Mr. Schonfeld: Are You Referring To The...
Mr. Schonfeld: Are you referring to the triune God with three characters, or are you talking about three gods?
Sri Chinmoy: It is only one God in three aspects. Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the three cosmic gods who represent the absolute God.
Mr. Schonfeld: In Everyday Life, Do You...
Mr. Schonfeld: In everyday life, do you expect your followers to change their ways and habits?
Sri Chinmoy: I have to tell you very frankly at this point that if they are doing something wrong, then they will have to change. If they are doing something right, then I will tell them that there is no end to their progress. We can always make more progress.
Mr. Schonfeld: Who Decides What Is Wrong...
Mr. Schonfeld: Who decides what is wrong and what is right?
Sri Chinmoy: It is their conscience that tells them if what they are doing is right. Each one of us has a conscience. With soulful prayer and meditation, we come to know what we are doing wrong and what we are doing right.
Mr. Schonfeld: Do You Believe That The...
Mr. Schonfeld: Do you believe that the human being is born with a pure soul?
Sri Chinmoy: The human being is always born with a pure soul. It is the ignorance of earth that enters into each human being and creates problems for us.
Mr. Schonfeld: How Do You Find A...
Mr. Schonfeld: How do you find a way to eliminate hatred between people if misunderstandings develop or there are arguments?
Sri Chinmoy: One can eliminate hatred and misunderstanding between individuals provided one has the capacity to bring down Peace and Love from above and inject these qualities into them.
Mr. Schonfeld: Why Should Somebody Want To...
Mr. Schonfeld: Why should somebody want to become a follower of yours?
Sri Chinmoy: There is no necessity for it.
Mr. Schonfeld: Are You Seeking To Convert...
Mr. Schonfeld: Are you seeking to convert people, like a missionary?
Sri Chinmoy: Not in the least. I am not trying to convert anybody. God has entrusted me with a shop and he has given me a few fruits to offer. Those who are interested will come to buy and eat my fruit. I have not come here to convert anybody. Mine is not the life of a missionary. As I told you before, mine is a life of service. I have come to serve mankind with what I have, which is love.
Mr. Schonfeld: You Are Not Out, Then,...
Mr. Schonfeld: You are not out, then, to tell a Jew or Christian or a Moslem to drop his faith and follow you?
Sri Chinmoy: Oh, no.
Mr. Schonfeld: What If A Member Of...
Mr. Schonfeld: What if a member of one of these religions wanted to become one of your disciples? Would you want him to retain his faith?
Sri Chinmoy: I always tell Moslems, Jews, Christians and practitioners of other religions to retain their faith. That is absolutely the best way. Each religion is like a home. One cannot live in the street. How can one remain homeless?
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, You Are An...
Mr. Schonfeld: Sri Chinmoy, you are an Indian living in the United States. What do you plan to do from now on?
Sri Chinmoy: I plan only to be of service to the aspiring souls who want and need my service.
Mr. Schonfeld: Are You Going Back To...
Mr. Schonfeld: Are you going back to India?
Sri Chinmoy: No, I am not going back to live, but I may visit. I have visited there three times since coming here.
Mr. Schonfeld: Don't You Think That Indians...
Mr. Schonfeld: Don't you think that Indians need this kind of advice that you are giving Americans?
Sri Chinmoy: There are Indian leaders in India to offer the Indians advice. For me there is no India, there is no America. I am a spiritual man. For a spiritual man, geography has no meaning. Geography cannot bind a spiritual man. The Creator feels that the entire creation belongs to Him. So the whole world is one if you are one with the Creator.
Mr. Schonfeld: That Would Account For Your...
Mr. Schonfeld: That would account for your form of meditation. What do you see as the difference between the East and the West?
Sri Chinmoy: In the East people care more for the inner light than for the outer light. In the West people tend to be for the outer light first and then for the inner light. There is nothing wrong with the quest of the western world. In the outer life, the scientific discoveries of the West have taken man very far. The West tries to run very fast in the scientific world. The East cried and cried for the inner world, for the inner light. So naturally the East discovered inner peace and the West discovered scientific proof.
Mr. Schonfeld: What Effect Did Hinduism Or...
Mr. Schonfeld: What effect did Hinduism or Buddhism have on the West?
Sri Chinmoy: It is not Hinduism or Buddhism that is entering the West. It is Yoga that is trying to inspire the West. Yoga is not the sole monopoly of India. An Indian has a soul and an American also has a soul. When we practise Yoga, your soul and my soul become one. It is not my religion or your religion that is making us one. It is our souls that are making us one.
Mr. Schonfeld: Do You Include Yoga, Then,...
Mr. Schonfeld: Do you include Yoga, then, in the practise of your particular faith?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes, in my faith Yoga is everything. Love, devotion and surrender are forms of Yoga.
Mr. Schonfeld: Does Physical Exercise Go With...
Mr. Schonfeld: Does physical exercise go with the meditation?
Sri Chinmoy: I do not practise Hatha Yoga, the physical postures and so forth. I deal with the consciousness. I teach my students concentration, meditation and contemplation.
Question: What Is The Role Of The...
Question: What is the role of the seeker?
Sri Chinmoy: The seeker's role is to come out of the ignorance-sea and swim in the sea of light.
Question: What Is Heaven?...
Question: What is Heaven?
Sri Chinmoy: Heaven is the hide-and-seek of self-giving and self-becoming. Again, Heaven is the knower and, at the same time, the possessor of love and light.
Question: Is Heaven One Of The Seven...
Question: Is Heaven one of the seven higher worlds?
Sri Chinmoy: Heaven itself is one of the higher worlds. Again, Heaven has different degrees. There is Heaven number one, Heaven number two, and so on. Inside Heaven there are more than seven worlds. Inside Heaven there can be many places, many stages of evolution: high, higher, highest.
Question: Is All Suffering And Pain A...
Question: Is all suffering and pain a sign of purification?
Sri Chinmoy: No. Some suffering is a form of purification and some suffering is just a falling into ignorance. If a child wants to show his capacity to others and he intentionally touches fire, he will get burned. If you deliberately enter into the pleasure world, then the consequence is pain. This is not purification; it is stupidity. Or you will suffer if your resistance is down at the time the hostile forces attack.
Question: What Is The Purpose Of Evil...
Question: What is the purpose of evil and what is its source?
Sri Chinmoy: In the beginning there was only infinite Light and Silence. Then each individual was given limited freedom. When that limited freedom is misused, evil or Satan or whatever you want to call it gradually becomes stronger. If we properly use our limited freedom, then we go towards the Divine, towards the Light. But if we misuse the opportunity, then we become anti-divine; we become a hostile force. It is not God's intention that there should be undivine forces, hostile forces. In God's creation we are all His children. But some are good, and some are bad. God did not intend to have a bad creation. He gave us limited freedom. But that limited freedom we have misused to such an extent that we have created our own world of ignorance, inconscience and undivine forces. It is the same old story: disobedience. If we obey the inner law, then nothing happens. But when we disobey the inner law, evil comes into existence.
A cow is tied to a tree with a rope. The cow gets very limited freedom, but it destroys whatever it can. With our limited freedom also, we start wars and try to destroy the world. But again, if we have good will, if we have love and a feeling of oneness, then instead of destroying the world, we shall try to embrace the world.
The evil force is in our mind, not inside our aspiring heart. The mind wants to taste the whole world, piece by piece, whereas the heart wants to enjoy the whole world as a unit, as a whole. The heart feels that the whole world belongs to it. But the mind says, "This is mine, this is yours." The more the mind can separate, the greater the joy the mind gets. Evil comes when there is a sense of separation, a sense of separativity. When there is union, there is no evil.
Question: Isn't It Really Easy To Get...
Question: Isn't it really easy to get rid of undivine qualities if we just set our mind to it?
Sri Chinmoy: We all have undivine qualities, but often we don't take them seriously. We just say to ourselves, "Oh, I have the capacity to conquer them. I am physically strong; I can throw the javelin, the discus and the shotput a great distance. Lethargy, fear and all these things are very weak. If I want to, easily I can conquer them." This kind of idea comes into our minds. But no, lethargy, fear and doubt have tremendous power, tremendous power. Unless we have actually conquered something which stands in our way, we must not say that we can conquer it. First let us conquer it. Once we try to conquer it, then only will we respect its power. We feel it is something very subtle and little, and that we can crush it like an ant. But look at the power of this ant. It can simply ruin the whole being. So, let us catch hold of this ant and destroy it. Then only can we say that we are strong.
Look at jealousy. All the time we are jealous, but we feel that if we want to conquer our jealousy, we can do so at any moment. That is our human feeling. For forty or fifty years, or all our life, we are jealous of someone or something, and we think that if we want to conquer it, then we can do it in the twinkling of an eye. This much confidence we have in ourselves. But let us just try to conquer it, and we will see that it will take another fifty years to do so. Let us first conquer our undivine qualities, and then only will we be able to march forward and enter into another world.
Question: Was Martin Luther King A Saint?...
Question: Was Martin Luther King a saint?
Sri Chinmoy: He was very pure in mind and heart. He was a lover: a lover not only of his race but a lover of all mankind. One can be a lover of mankind from any height. One can be a lover of mankind from the illumined vital, the illumined mind or the illumined heart. Also, one can become a lover of mankind after becoming a great Yogi and spiritual Master. So, Martin Luther King was a lover of mankind. But he did not become a lover of mankind after reaching the highest height. No. He did reach a certain height. From the human point of view it is very, very high, and what he wanted to offer was most significant. But it was not the gift of a saint who has established his inner and outer oneness with God. In his case, realisation was still a far cry. But his heart was so broad, so great, so magnanimous, and this gave him a most sincere feeling of absolute oneness with everyone. This is what made him so divinely great.
Martin Luther King's achievement was really extraordinary. But if you have to judge it from the strict spiritual point of view, you cannot say it was equal to the achievement of a great saint. The life that a saint lives is unimaginable. Constantly he is communing with God, the Highest, the Absolute. The saint illumines mankind. He does it like a thief, inwardly. His very presence illumines the world. When he stands in front of a tiger or an undivine creature, it will get a kind of purity, a kind of divine feeling. The very presence of a saint is most powerful. If you ask me whether a boxer is as good as a singer, I will say, "A boxer is a boxer, a singer is a singer. Two different roles they play." When one plays the role of a saint, it is totally different from the role that Martin Luther King played. So Martin Luther King's achievement was a great achievement, but it was an achievement of the vital plane-not the lower vital, but the illumined vital, the higher vital. It was something great and unique.
Question: You Say, "annam Brahma-Food Is God....
Question: You say, "Annam Brahma- Food is God." At what times do you say, "Work is God?"
Sri Chinmoy: Work is dedication. Dedication means expansion-not human expansion, but divine expansion. When the bird spreads its wings, we appreciate it. Why? Because the next moment it will fly. It is spreading its wings and it will soon fly. Work is dedication. Dedication is the harbinger of manifestation and the real manifestation is perfection. So it starts with work. If you know the real meaning of work, then certainly work is God. Work means self-dedication.
Question: When This World Is All Perfect...
Question: When this world is all perfect perfection and we are in the Beyond, will we all be there together?
Sri Chinmoy: The earth will become perfect when God's Tomorrow dawns. But God's Tomorrow is not our tomorrow. Our tomorrow will come after twenty-four hours. God's Tomorrow is something different. At that time, we may be in another world. There is not one world; there are seven higher worlds and seven lower worlds. Naturally we shall go to the higher worlds because we have prayed and we have meditated. God is not deaf; He has ears, He hears our prayers. Sometimes he hears too much. We have said many nasty things, but these God wants to hide. At that time, if God becomes deaf, it is for our own good. So we shall go to the higher worlds according to our aspiration. If your aspiration is high, naturally you will go to a higher world than others. From your world you will be able to look at the earth and see that it is perfect. There are many who have prayed for the perfection of Mother Earth. Their perfection means the perfection of the earth, and the perfection of earth means their own perfection. This is the seekers' identification. But if we ask whether all those who cried for the transformation of earth or of the human nature will come back when the earth is totally transformed, then the answer is no, they will not. There are many spiritual giants and many seekers who have cried for the transformation of the earth consciousness, but they will be happy to only look on from their higher worlds when perfection is achieved.
It is like this. Let us say a father wanted to become a multi-millionaire, but he could not. But if after he leaves the body he sees that many years later his own son has become a multi-millionaire, he does not immediately return into the world to share the wealth of his son. No, from there he is happy that his son has fulfilled his desire on earth. Similarly, all those who cried for perfection on earth will be extremely delighted and proud that, although they did not see the success, the success has been achieved. To see the success and then to come and say, "I also did something," would be to act in our human way. Here on earth when we do something for someone we say, "I have done that for him." Then immediately others come to us for help. But spiritual giants, even when they are on earth, do millions of things for their disciples and for Mother Earth. If a spiritual person does ten good things on earth in the outer life, then people will say, "Oh, he is very kind, very generous, very self-giving." But if he does ten things outwardly, then we have to know that he has done ninety things inwardly. When God-realisation takes place, spiritual seekers make the promise to God that they will do millions and billions of things for earth. If the Supreme does not want them to disclose what they do, then they will just keep it secret. But here on earth when we do something before we are realised, immediately we either tell everyone or others come to know of it because it is done on the physical plane. If someone does something on the physical plane, then either today or tomorrow others will come to know of it. But if it is done in the inner world, then only the spiritual Masters and really sincere seekers will know of it because they are constantly trying to identify themselves with the consciousness of the Inner Pilot, the Supreme. Again, very often it happens that the highest Supreme does not want even the seekers to know what is being done for them by their spiritual Master. It is only between God and His instrument through whom He is operating. So when perfection is achieved, many people will be on earth to see it. There will also be many who cried for perfection who will see it from a distance, but they will not come down to earth to see it. Perhaps there will be some who will be eager to see their achievements and to see that their aspiration has taken material form. But according to my own feeling, the really sincere spiritual seekers and Masters who cried for the perfection of the earth consciousness will not go because the thing has been done not by them, but by the infinite Grace of the Supreme. The others, who will have really only given the finishing touch, will be on earth at that time. They will pray and meditate and receive the glory. The others in the higher worlds will take the glory inwardly because they started the journey. The Supreme, who was right there from the beginning and who deserves all the glory, will give all the credit to the spiritual Masters, to the seekers and to the aspirants. He will do everything, but He will take no glory. Only we seekers will take the glory.
Now to come back to your question. When earth is perfectly perfect, we will see it from different planes of consciousness, and not all together. Some of you perhaps will be here at that time, and others will be on another plane of consciousness. Everybody will stay, according to the Will of the Supreme, on a different plane of consciousness. When it is done, everybody will be able to see, everybody will come to know that earth has attained perfection. When something takes place in a distant part of the world, we come to know of it, and it is up to us to either go and visit it or to believe it. Right now, if anything happens in Moscow, we come to know of it through newspaper and television. We may not get a firsthand look, but we know that the thing has taken place. When the astronauts go up to the moon, we believe it. They bring down the result. So also, when earth is transformed, when perfection takes place here on earth, we will be able to see it, we will be able to hear it, we will be able to feel it.
On 4 March 1973, Sri Chinmoy was interviewed by Walter Schonfeld on the radio programme, "At the United Nations."
Mr. Schonfeld: From the United Nations we have brought you a talk with Sri Chinmoy, an Indian Guru who has a large and growing following believing in the concept of meditation and spirituality through love. This is Walter Schonfeld at the United Nations.
