Mr. O'Brien: Well, we were talking before we came into the studio, Sri Chinmoy, about universality, that I really in a way am not an individual standing all alone; I am a part of the great universe. Do I understand that correctly?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes, absolutely.
Mr. O'Brien: Now, another thing, if I see God in other men — as you tell me and other people have told me the same thing in a different way — is it possible for me to see God in some other man before I find Him in myself?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes. It is possible for you to see God in some other man before you see God in yourself precisely because the other man is more advanced in the realm of spirituality. It is like this: a high school student, he has not yet come up to the university to study but he sees that the university student has more knowledge than he has. A day will come, that he will also from high school, he will enter into the college or enter into the university, he himself will, but right now he is a high school student. In the university student he will see more knowledge, more wisdom, than he has. Because of his development, because of his wisdom, inner light, the university student is superior. So, in him he sees knowledge more than he has. In the spiritual life also, when you go to a spiritual Master, he meditates with you. He will be able to offer peace, light, bliss and so forth. In his peace, in his light, infinite peace, light and bliss, you will see the real divinity. Then, while you meditate at home, during your highest meditation, you are going to have the same experience of peace, bliss, delight and power in yourself. Now, the Master, he has practised for years and years inner discipline, spiritual life and so forth. That is why he is in a position to offer light all at once. In your case also, if you also practise for years and years spiritual life, you will be able to see God within you, consciously.
Mr. O'Brien: Well, now getting back to what you said about the students and the various schools, I don't find God and then stop, do I? This is something that I must continue to seek and strive for as long as I live. Do I understand that correctly?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes. Here, at the beginning, we have to feel that we are all God's children. We belong to one family. If we feel that God is our Father, Mother and God is everything, then He has a family of His own and we are the members of this family. Now, when we have the feeling of oneness — that this is my brother, this is my sister — and when I see inside my own sister the living presence of my father, then what happens? My oneness with my sister makes me see, feel, the living presence of my father within me.
Mr. O'Brien: Yes, so that just as I am really part of my natural father, my physical father — in the spiritual life, God is my spiritual Father, I have part of that in me then?
Sri Chinmoy: Already, you have. Already, somebody is more developed. If somebody is taking exercise daily and he has developed his muscle, so now if you look at him, then you will see that he has wonderful physique; he is so strong and robust. And if you also take exercise, you will also have the same development. So, the one who is already developed, if you look at him or enter into him, you will get immediate satisfaction of divinity. And the same thing can be seen and practised in your own life, too.
Mr. O'Brien: Well, in spirituality then we have the same thing we have in muscular body. Unless we exercise it, it atrophies, doesn't it?
Sri Chinmoy: Yes, absolutely. And the same thing as in the physical body, if we don't eat daily, we starve. Then what happens? We lose strength. Then eventually we die. In the spiritual life also, if we do not feed ourselves every day, that is to say, if we don't pray or meditate, then we lose our inner capacity. Then we start doubting God, we start doubting God's peace, light and bliss. We say that these are all imagination; there is no reality. We must meditate daily, as we feed our outer body. Prayer and meditation are nourishment, proper nourishment.
Mr. O'Brien: Yes. Now, I've been thinking as you're talking, I believe it's in the Torah, there is a verse which says something to the effect, "Be still and know that I am God." Now, that to me means that we have to be still and listen, that we don't hear the voice of God unless we're willing to listen. Do we . . .
Sri Chinmoy: It means our dedicated surrender to God's Will. Then only we can keep our inner ear open. When the Christ said, "I and my Father are one"; the Vedic Seers said, "Brahmasmi" — "I am the Brahman." They said it all on the strength of their inner oneness founded on their self-dedication. The moment we see somebody has dedicated his entire life to God, self-discovery, that means he has his inner ear to listen to the dictates of the inner voice. Now you are talking to me and I am listening to you, what you are saying. I have kept my ears open. In the outer world, we are listening to each other. Similarly, in the inner world also we can listen to the dictates of our soul, of our God, of our highest Inner Pilot. How? Only when we open or when we dedicate ourselves entirely to God. The moment our dedication is complete, rest assured, that our inner ear is open. And when inner ear is open, we get the voice, we hear the voice. First, we hear the voice, then we feel that in the inner voice, there is enormous power, strength. Now, suppose you tell me to do something, ask something. I have heard your voice; I am listening. It is up to me to listen to you or not. But when we hear the inner voice, inner voice has the tremendous power. It gives us power to execute the will itself.
Mr. O'Brien: It is something we have to learn so that we are able to communicate with God Himself. We must listen. Now, how do we do this? We can't do this rushing around.
Sri Chinmoy: Thank you! It is absolutely true. In the hustle and bustle of life, it is almost impossible for us to meditate. But we have to know if we really care for God. Do we really need Him? We need food, we need clothing, we need so many things. These are of desperate need, we need. Similarly, we have to ask ourselves a question: do we really need God? If the answer is yes, we need Him, then the next thing is to listen to Him. Right now, everybody in the street will say yes, if he is not atheist. "Yes, yes, I need God, I need God." But what kind of need? There is no desperate need. You are pinched with thirst and you quench your thirst and you are satisfied. Similarly, everyone has to have that inner cry, inner thirst, for God. Then when one is really thirsty, God will provide the necessary drink, nectar. And for that what do we need? We need daily fifteen minutes or half an hour's time dedicated to God before we enter into the outer world. Eight o'clock we leave our home, we go to the office. Why? To meet with the demands of the outer life. But if we want to meet with the demands of the inner life, then first things first. Early in the morning, if God comes first, we have to meditate ten minutes on God and then we have to go to humanity to please humanity or for our own sake to stay here on earth. So, if God comes first, then early in the morning let us pray to God, let us meditate on God. Then let us enter into the activities of the world.
Mr. O'Brien: In my experience, Sri Chinmoy, the majority of us — maybe I'll include myself — when times are good and we have no trouble and we have our health, we pray a little, sometimes not at all. It's when we are touched with illness or disaster or the pain of the loss of one of our loved ones, then we turn to God. I wonder sometimes if you feel like saying to us that we took a long time to come around? Isn't it better, when things are good and we have our health and we have a modicum of happiness, then to meditate and give a little thanks for this?
Sri Chinmoy: Here we have to know our Father is all compassion and all forgiveness. It is not like, you know, fair-weather friend. That only if somebody comes, when you are on good terms, when you are in a happy mood, you are in prosperity, somebody is making friends with you. In the case of God, it is different. He is all forgiveness. If we do not pray to Him while we are happy, while we are living a prosperous life, He does not mind. He is all forgiveness. He feels that we are asleep; we are fast asleep. He says, "Better late than never! My child, I want you to get up early in the morning and pray to Me, but if for months and months you are not getting up, then what can I do? But if one day you get up and meditate, then so much the better for you and Me. And then gradually you will have the feeling that by getting up early in the morning, while you are praying to God, you are feeding yourself and you are feeding Me."
Mr. O'Brien: Yes, yes.
Sri Chinmoy: So, now, in the spiritual life also, we have a big family, a spiritual family. We are all God's children. United, if we can eat the inner food, that is to say, united if we pray and meditate and all that, naturally He will be very happy. But if we cannot do it every day, it is our fault, but He is all-forgiving. He will not mind. But if we consciously pray and meditate every day, He will be much happier. And the next thing is only, I wish to tell you, better late than never. If I cannot get up at five o'clock to meditate, no harm. But if I get up at ten o'clock and then start meditating, that is to say, feeding my Father and being fed together, that is far better than to starve.
Mr. O'Brien: Well, in the whole concept, Sri Chinmoy, the great goal that we are striving for in trying to find God or in finding God in ourselves, in finding Him in other people, is that we are all part of a family; we are interdependent. That all men are equal in the sight of God, men and women, of course, are equal in the sight of God. They are all His children. I would feel He — and I would hope He is a very compassionate God — might look very unkindly on those of us who find people that we just dislike, and have no affection for, no use for and wouldn't want to help under any set of circumstances. I would think that might be, if there is such a thing, the unpardonable sin, wouldn't it, to hate one of my human beings, my fellow creatures?
Sri Chinmoy: Excuse me, here at this point, I wish to say that there is no such thing as unpardonable sin. First of all, being an Indian and being a follower of infinite Truth and Light, I wish to say that there is no such thing as sin. That is all man-made. This word 'sin' is man-made and God-made Truth is always Light and Delight. So, what you call 'sin', we call it 'ignorance'. The moment we use the term 'sin' — "I have committed a sin; I am going to hell" — where is hell? Where is Heaven? It is all in my mind; it is all in the plane of consciousness. So, we Indians and spiritual seekers and Masters are not at all afraid of the word 'sin' because we feel there is no such thing as sin. Yet we do feel that there is something called ignorance. I am ignorant. As soon as I came here, as soon as I came in the studio, you said each one is ignorant; each one has to learn something. Yes. Now, if it is a matter of spirituality, I may offer you a little light, but if it is a matter of radio, you have abundant light to offer me. So, I am ignorant of radio and you are ignorant of spiritual life, let us say it like that?
Mr. O'Brien: Yes.
Sri Chinmoy: Here also, on earth, each one is ignorant of something. So, that is ignorance not sin. And owing to ignorance, I do something wrong; owing to ignorance you do something wrong. And then we rectify it. I have the knowledge of spirituality. I am telling you, "Mr. O'Brien, if you do this, your life will be changed, radically changed." And you have all knowledge of the radio and you will tell me, "Mr. Ghose, if you do this then you will see; you will be able to speak wonderfully and you will be of greater help to mankind if you answer questions this way." Or something concerning your radio apparatus if you tell me then I can be of greater help to you, to mankind. So, this is all ignorance. No sin, there is no such thing. My ignorance has to be removed by you; your ignorance has to be removed by me. In this way, we are all interdependent, interdependent. What I lack, what I am wanting in, you have to fill it, and what you lack, I have to fill it. In this way, we can fulfil each other. By fulfilling each other, that is to say, by fulfilling God's creation, we are pleasing God and the strength is coming directly from God to fulfil you and to fulfil me.
Mr. O'Brien: Now, Sri Chinmoy, we are here at Iona College where we have, I imagine, around three thousand students, boys and girls. All of us are here we say at least for one purpose: to see that the young students who are here are properly educated to have a fine life, to enjoy life. I wonder what would happen here at Iona campus if a certain number of our students, faculty administration, call them what you want, if five hundred of us would sit down every day and meditate on the fact that we are God's children, do this a half-hour every day. I wonder if in six months this campus would change?
Sri Chinmoy: Definitely! It won't take six months. If you meditate — was it fifty or five hundred?
Mr. O'Brien: Five hundred.
Sri Chinmoy: So, if five hundred devoted seekers meditate for one week, the face of Iona College will change. It won't be necessary for you people to meditate for six months. United, if you can meditate for one week, five hundred, aspiration — we call it 'inner flame'. When the inner flame mounts up high, higher, highest you will touch God's boundless Compassion, Light, Peace, Bliss. All will descend; all will descend here into this College. It can easily be by far the best college in the United States. Why only in the United States — in the world! Because no college, as far as I know, meditates with five hundred members daily. We have Centres, a few spiritual Centres. There are sixty, seventy or eighty members in the Centres. When we meditate together, sixty members of a particular Centre, we literally bring down Heaven on earth through our joint aspiration. Dedication, aspiration, divine love, divine surrender to God's Will — "Let Thy Will be done" — these things we do. And we feel that the whole entire meditation room is flooded with Peace, Light and Bliss. So, if five hundred can meditate together here, the Kingdom of Heaven can be established in this building, in this Iona College.
Mr. O'Brien: Not only the College, we might even change New Rochelle, Sri Chinmoy?
Sri Chinmoy: Why only New Rochelle? When light starts spreading, it spreads all over the world. Let us take it as a bird. Here, if the bird starts spreading its wings, from this Iona College, why only New Rochelle? It has to enter into the entire New York, then all the States. Then comes the whole world. Light originates from a particular place. Now you see rivers, our India's greatest river, most sacred river, is the Ganges. It originates where? From the Himalayas, from the topmost Himalayas and then it comes down. But the source is the Himalayas. So, here also, if this is the source, if Iona College becomes a source, then from here, the consciousness, spiritual consciousness, feeling of divine oneness, can easily spread throughout the length and breadth of the world.
Mr. O'Brien: Yes, you know I said five hundred at Iona College. Really there is only one person at Iona College who is the greatest concern to me — that is myself. I would like to ask you now for myself. Maybe we'll start this at Iona College with one or two. What should I do? There are certain things I do now, but I want to do more. What should I do now every day?
Sri Chinmoy: Every day you please meditate for a few minutes, say fifteen minutes. Now, we need a few things to inspire us outwardly. Suppose you have incense right in front of you, burning incense. It reminds you immediately of aspiration. Incense is burning and you are being purified. In the spiritual life, when we have purity, we are hundreds of miles away from the bondage, the man-made bondage. Then if you keep a candle in front of you, you see the flame, burning flame of aspiration. If you keep a few flowers in front of you, then the purity comes, childlike purity. When you look at a child, the child has no enemy because he is flooded with purity, with divine light, divine consciousness. So, when you meditate, when you pray to God, if you could kindly keep a few flowers in front of you, and then incense and candles, automatically your meditation will be heightened by these aspiring qualities right in front of you. And then if you can have one or two friends who are willing to be in the same boat, that is to say, who are really ready to participate in your inner search. Here Hugh is there, Paul — these two will be more than willing to meditate with you. Here, I am sure, they will be more than willing. These are young members of your family here, spiritual family. So, if you could meditate fifteen minutes a day. You are starting with one, two, three. And again, in God's Eye, it is not the number, it is not the quantity. It is the quality. So, you can easily be a host in yourself if your aspiration is thick, intense and most powerful. Then that is more than enough for God.
Mr. O'Brien: Now, the theme I should take, I would imagine, the general theme is that I am a child of God, that as He is my Heavenly Father, my spiritual Father, I want total communion with Him. Now, aside from that . . .
Sri Chinmoy: Excuse me, here you have to know that the word 'Heaven' is very confusing. If you feel that Heaven is something infinitely higher than the ceiling, then you are mistaken. Heaven is right inside your heart.
Mr. O'Brien: Yes.
Sri Chinmoy: So, when you are praying or meditating, if you feel that your God, your Father, is inside here, in the inmost recesses of your heart, and here, inside your heart, you are going to see Him face to face — face to face you are going to see Him — then it becomes infinitely easier for you to meditate and contemplate. Otherwise, while you are meditating, if your mind soars up high, higher, highest, then only it will be roaming there, endlessly. But if you meditate on your heart and go deep within, then you will get constant feeling of sweetness, love, joy, peace, and bliss. So, when you are meditating, please meditate here \[in the heart\] and try to establish your conscious union with God.
Mr. O'Brien: Now if I can accomplish this, Sri Chinmoy, the people around me are going to see this, aren't they?
Sri Chinmoy: Absolutely! They are bound to see, they are bound to feel.
Mr. O'Brien: So, as I said to you before, the people who very often find me very objectionable will see a change in me then, will they?
Sri Chinmoy: They find you objectionable precisely because they do not see the divinity in you or they do not want to see the divinity in you. Now what? Is it your fault? You are also God's child. So, they are seeing your outer cloak, outer garb, if they say that you are objectionable. But why do they not pay attention, why do they not go and enter deeper than their outer vision and see the divinity, the flood of divinity, inside you? It is their mistake that they don't see the divinity inside you. Now, it is your mistake equally that you are not bringing to the fore your own divinity.
Mr. O'Brien: That's the thing I'm most interested in, isn't it?
Sri Chinmoy: Their mistake is that they are not trying to dig inside you and get the wealth, the mine. They know that inside you there is a treasure. Treasure is there but they are unwilling to dig it. They just want to see it on the surface, the wealth. You are under no obligation to show your treasure. They have to come, they have to open the door, they have to open the safe where you have kept your money. Then only they will say, "Oh, he is a very rich man." But again, on your part, if you are kind enough, you will say, "Why should I give them so much trouble? They have to unlock the door and then come into my room and see where I have kept my money and my wealth? Best thing is for me is to open up everything at the gate as soon as they come and let them see it and say, 'This is for you. I am ready to give it.'"
From:Sri Chinmoy,The Canvas of Time, Madal Bal, Czech Republic, 2019
Sourced from https://srichinmoylibrary.com/cat