Conversation — part XI

Sri Chinmoy: I am so happy. Please forgive me for taking so much of your time. This is my heart’s offering to you, brother. This is the song that I sang. [Sri Chinmoy presents Muhammad Ali with a plaque on which the song he wrote and sang for Muhammad Ali is inscribed.]

This is for you as you eternally are. We are praying to Allah to bless us who want to be His devoted instruments, to please Him in His own way. This is my oneness-heart I am offering to you.

Muhammad Ali: Thank you, thank you. I have many, many awards like this from Kings, Queens, Presidents. But this will be right over all the rest of them. I would like to give you the Muslim hug. [Muhammad Ali gave Sri Chinmoy the Muslim hug.]

Sri Chinmoy: Our Indian way is like this. [Sri Chinmoy folds his hands.] When I do this it means that I bow to the presence of Allah which I feel and see inside you. When I fold my hands in the Indian way, it means that I am bowing to Allah inside you. And when you do the same thing, at that time you are worshipping Allah inside my heart. This is our tradition.

Muhammad Ali: Thank you. Let’s get some refreshments. Here’s some orange juice.

Sri Chinmoy: Thank you. Now, may I ask you something?

Muhammad Ali: Yes, sir.

Sri Chinmoy: When you speak in the ring, is there any special inner reason? Of course, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.

Muhammad Ali: Oh, I didn’t know you noticed that.

Sri Chinmoy: I’ve read your autobiography, so that’s why I know.

Muhammad Ali: In the world of sports, when fear leaves you, it goes into your adversary. When I display confidence, this weakens my opponent. For example, when I boxed with Joe Frazier I would say to him, “It is impossible for you to whip me; you are too ugly. You are too ugly to represent the black people. The champion should be beautiful, like me. I am pretty; you are ugly.” This would make him mad. He would get angry and lose his head and get off guard. I am boxing a fellow and we’re in a clinch. We close in and I might say to him, “It’s impossible for you to beat me tonight. I’m fighting for God, I’m working for God. God is with me. I’ve too much power for you.” This puts fear into the man. It worries him. It makes my work a little bit easier. But sometimes I say things which will make him mad like, “Look at that beautiful girl sitting out there. She’s watching me beat you up.” This idea is to take his mind off the fight and to frustrate him. You know, when a man is real angry, he can’t think. I just keep a cool head. When I talk to him, I belittle him, you know. I’ll say things to him like, “You don’t stand a chance. You’re too ugly to be the world champion. I cannot let you win tonight; you’re too ugly.” It’s a psychological thing.

Sri Chinmoy: Certainly it is.

Muhammad Ali: I knocked George Foreman out in Africa. When I fight him again, in the first round I’ll say, “I’m going to knock you out again tonight. But this time it won’t be round seven; it’s going to be round four.” And when round four comes, unconsciously he starts trying to prove that I won’t.

It all depends on whom I’m fighting. And also it’s publicity. Promoters pay me because I draw a crowd. Promoters pay me one million in American money. After taxes and expenses I only keep three hundred thousand, and this money I use to help people. In New York City, I don’t know if you heard about it, but there was an old folks home going out of business.

Sri Chinmoy: Yes, yes, I read about it in the newspapers.

Muhammad Ali: They needed a hundred thousand dollars, so I gave them a hundred thousand dollars because forty-five old people were going to be put out on the street. My heart just couldn’t let this happen to these old people. We all are going to get old, and I couldn’t let these old people be put out in the streets. There is so much charity I try to do — school buses, and drug rehabilitation centres, and the problems that black America’s got. I’m trying to help, but the money I have is so little. I’m on empty now because I give away as much as I can to worthy people, not just anybody.

I want to do all I can now while I’m on top, while I’m drawing people. My talking, my writing poems, my Ali shuffle, predicting the rounds, all these little gimmicks make promoters pay me. I read something in Hazrat’s book. He said the man who has no imagination stands on the earth. He has no wings. He cannot fly. You have to have an imagination when you start your journey. You know the countries you want to go to, so you have to have imagination. A man who doesn’t have an imagination is still standing. Like in India, where you were born, some people you knew as a child are probably still standing around on the street doing nothing, while you are going around the world because you had imagination.

Sri Chinmoy: Imagination is a world of its own. It is a reality, only we don’t live in that reality-world. We feel that imagination is something mental, an hallucination. What you are saying is so true, absolutely true. From the spiritual point of view imagination is a real world which we are trying to bring to the fore.

Muhammad Ali: Right.

Sri Chinmoy: It is inside us.

Muhammad Ali: So in answer to your question, talking is just part of my imagination of ways to capture the public, the newspaper people. It captures the people who have the money to buy the tickets which makes me a good salary so I can go out and help as many people as I can. Talking is just salesmanship, just one of the things which is going to make me colourful while I stand out over the average boxer.

Sri Chinmoy: I am so grateful to you for illumining me about this question I have had. Sometimes we feel that when we talk we may lose our power of concentration. You are concentrating to knock your opponent down, but when you talk you may lose some of your physical power, mental power. But you have all confidence.

Muhammad Ali: Yes, I do. You are right. And I don’t talk all the time. Sometimes it’s not the time to talk. Sometimes a thing is close. It’s a little strenuous. It’s painful and you have to be serious. But Allah blesses me so I am able to feel the moment I should say something. I just don’t do it unnecessarily. There is always a reason.

Sri Chinmoy: I understand. When it is time for you to muster all your power of concentration, at that time you do.

Muhammad Ali: Right. For example, my last Frazier fight, no talking. My last fight in Manila I didn’t do any talking.

Sri Chinmoy: In your book the chapter on Manila is very, very short compared to the others.

Muhammad Ali: You know that book well.

Sri Chinmoy: I enjoyed it very much. Your heart’s nobility impressed me most. At the beginning, when you lost to Norton, your managers and others wouldn’t allow him to come near you. At that time, to me you were the real winner because you allowed him to come to your room. “This is his day; let him come,” you said. So in God’s Eye, Allah’s Eye, you were the winner. In my eye you were the winner, because your heart’s magnanimity saw that he is also Allah’s son. Everybody is Allah, so you allowed him to come to your room.

Muhammad Ali: Yes, sir.

Sri Chinmoy: When I read that I was so moved and so proud of you. You were all oneness with Allah. An ordinary human being wouldn’t have been able to do that. He would have said, “Oh, Norton is my worst enemy. I don’t want to see his face.” But you didn’t do that. They wanted to show that he was the victor and you were the vanquished, so they took pictures. It was a kind of trick. But in spite of knowing that there was some kind of trick behind it or some wrong motive, your heart’s magnanimity said, “All right, I accept it. Allah’s Will is now my will.” That very thing has impressed me so deeply. In Allah’s Heart you are the real winner. I tell you, assuredly you are the real winner, not he.

Muhammad Ali: Allah blessed me, though, a year later. I had a comeback and won the victory.

Sri Chinmoy: So you did it?

Muhammad Ali: Allah blessed me to come back and win.

Sri Chinmoy: So you did it. You defeated him. I was reading that you have confidence in yourself. That confidence is Allah’s confidence in you, and you are offering it to mankind. It is not your confidence. It is Allah’s confidence in you that you are offering each time you talk.

Muhammad Ali: Yes, sir. Well, I want you to know one thing, when I get home, when we get home, we are going to visit you in New York.

Sri Chinmoy: Please do! I will be deeply honoured. I will be in Australia in March, and in June I will be in Europe but easily you can see me in April or May. Do you come to New York quite often? Where is your headquarters? Chicago?

Muhammad Ali: Chicago, but I’m always in the Park Lane Hotel right down at Central Park and Seventh Avenue. What I want to say, brother, to change the subject, I am going to train at two o’clock. If you want to see it, I’ll make arrangements. Would you like to see me box today, if you have time?

Sri Chinmoy: I will be very happy to see you.

Muhammad Ali: I was going to take you down now and show you where it’s going to be. Then I was going to get permission for you and your party to come through, because they charge $5 a head.

Sri Chinmoy: Thank you. Another thing that I saw in the book is your heart’s nobility. When you wanted the great boxer Joe Louis to help you, he refused. Then what happened? He was in trouble; he didn’t have any money, and you gave him a thousand dollars. Somebody didn’t help you, but you willingly helped him. Look at your heart’s magnanimity! You gave him money, you gave him hope and you didn’t go to Europe. That was your heart’s magnanimity.

Muhammad Ali: You remember everything.

Sri Chinmoy: These are the signs of a really pure heart, a really pure heart! The 17th was your birthday. Did you receive my cable?

Muhammad Ali: I don’t remember the cable. Did you send it here?

Sri Chinmoy: I sent it from the United Nations, not here but to Chicago, I think.

Muhammad Ali: Well, I wasn’t in Chicago at the time. It’s probably still there.

[Leaving elevator now; tape cut off once again at this point.]

Ali then escorted Sri Chinmoy and his students to the gymnasium to watch his sparring practice.